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Dr. Maria Jose Talayero Schettino joins the Agents of Change in Environmental Justice podcast to discuss why she switched careers from physician to environmental health researcher, and how she’s using this new training to advocate for environmental justice in Mexico. Talayero Schettino, a current Agents of Change fellow and a DrPH candidate in the Department of Environmental and Occupational Health at The George Washington University, also talks about the challenges of immigrating to the U.S. and how the medical field can better prepare doctors to understand the effects of environmental pollutants on our health.The Agents of Change in Environmental Justice podcast is a biweekly podcast featuring the stories and big ideas from past and present fellows, as well as others in the field. You can see all of the past episodes here.Listen below to our discussion with Talayero Schettino and subscribe to the podcast at iTunes or Spotify.Agents of Change in Environmental Justice · Maria Jose Talayero Schettino on using her research to advocate for environmental justice In MexicoTranscriptMaria Jose Talayero Schettino 00:00I don't I really don't think high income countries realize how all their decisions impact developing countries.Brian Bienkowski 00:11Hello and welcome back to the Agents of Change in Environmental Justice podcast, a partnership between Environmental Health News and Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health. I'm your host Brian Bienkowski, editor of Agents of Change, and senior editor at Environmental Health News. Folks, we are so grateful for your support. We've been at this a few years now and we would love to continue to grow. Please share this podcast with your family and friends, colleagues, and subscribe to us on Spotify or iTunes and please leave us a review. Today's guest is Dr. Maria Jose Talayero Schettino, a current fellow and a doctorate pH candidate in the Department of Environmental and Occupational Health at the George Washington University. Maria talks about switching careers from a physician to an environmental health researcher, using her research to advocate for environmental justice in her native Mexico and how the medical field can better prepare doctors to understand the effects of environmental pollutants on our health. Enjoy. All right, I am now joined by Dr. Maria,Jose Talayero Schettino. Maria, how are you doing today?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 01:14I'm doing great. Thanks for having me here. Brian, how are you?Brian Bienkowski 01:18I am doing wonderful. And I'm really excited to hear about all the work that you're doing. But I want to start at the very beginning. Tell me about growing up in Mexico City.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 01:29Oh, yeah, I honestly have very good memories about growing up in Mexico City. But I'm not sure how familiar you are with Mexican culture or if you've ever traveled there, butBrian Bienkowski 01:41almost zeroMaria Jose Talayero Schettino 01:42Mexicans really highly, highly value things like hospitality, generosity, respect for elders, solidarity. And it might sound really funny, but we highly value social connections and gatherings. I mean, it's weird to say that we really value parties, but we do. And that's why our food and culture is so important. So I feel like growing up in Mexico City was just like that: full of culture, tradition, family gatherings. And I feel like I'm very lucky to be able to call myself Mexican.Brian Bienkowski 02:12Is there a certain food or or holiday or gathering? Are there certain ones that kind of stick out in your mind as being particularly poignant?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 02:22I mean, yes, I think so. Particularly, Independence Day. I have very good memories about going to watch the fireworks. Independence Days in September. Most people in America think it's Cinco de Mayo. But that's not it. It's in September. But other holidays that really stick up for me are the other mortos which is in November, and also Posadas, which are held during like, December. So Christmas is very important to us too.Brian Bienkowski 02:54And the only thing I really know about Mexico City, and pardon my American ignorance, is it's it's a massive city, right? I mean, were you in kind of a dense urban area?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 03:04I mean, yeah, it's a huge, huge city. And I feel like there's a lot of people living around Mexico City, I did feel like I lived with my family in one of like, more suburban area, not closer to like, the historical center or anything. But we travel a lot by car. I mean, we have a huge air pollution problem because of that. But I feel like yeah, it's a huge city, and everyone's all around it in. I mean, it's very, very well connected when it comes to streets, we have a lot of traffic, but that's how people go around Mexico City by staying in traffic for really long periods of time.Brian Bienkowski 03:48So how and when did you become interested in health and the environment?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 03:53I mean, this is a great question. And every time I get it, I wish I had that story, "like when I was younger, I used to tell my parents that I wanted to be a doctor since I was a little girl." Unfortunately, that was not me. I wanted to be a singer. I wanted to be an artist. I wanted to be a painter. So that was not me. So I think I ended up in like healthcare and the environment because I really loved science. And don't get me wrong, I really hated physics and math. So because they hated it, I feel like that drew me into chemistry and biology. And I I think I ended up in medical school because of that, because my love for science and honestly, I never knew I was gonna end up doing research and doing a lot of statistics. Even after I ran away from math.Brian Bienkowski 04:42The only class I ever got to see in growing up was chemistry that that that for some reason that subject gave me such fits. And I don't know if it was my teacher, or what but it really bothered me.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 04:54I mean, yeah, it's a really, really hard, hard subject! and I I feel you I feel like I just don't know, I don't know what it was. But chemistry and biology always caught my eye.Brian Bienkowski 05:05eye. And the weird thing is now I, you know, I've spent most of my career writing about chemicals in the environment. So it's, it's strange, I hope I'm not just writing a bunch of incorrect things.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 05:17I guess I guess you've made peace with it. And now you love it.Brian Bienkowski 05:21That's right. So before we get into your your career has been fascinating because you, you started off in healthcare as a physician, and I want to talk about your journey. But first, what is a moment or event that has helped shape your identity?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 05:35Wow, that's a really hard question. I think there are a couple of things that I want to mention that really shaped my identity as I was growing up. And I feel like the first one was really practicing medicine in public hospitals, that really showed me that life is not fair. And that made me want to work on that. And I think the other thing I want to mention that really shaped my identity is immigrating to the United States, even though I emigrated when I was, I think, 26 years old. Even though I'm like a short four-hour flight away from home, I think immigrating made me realize about all the things that I took for granted, and now I really highly value.Brian Bienkowski 06:16Luckily, we're going to talk about both of those things. Because I think that's, it's a really important part of your journey. And starting with this idea of you became a physician in practice in rural communities around Mexico City. So can you tell me about this work, what you learned from this time with patients and why ultimately, you decided to switch careers?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 06:34Of course. So I guess, practicing medicine in rural communities, and even public hospitals, or public health care centers in Mexico, it really does feel like an art. Because you need to learn how to treat disease differently. Sometimes the medicines that you learn on a book that were the best for a specific disease are not available. So you have to work around it. And the same comes for like diagnostic diagnostic tools, you don't have fancy equipment, or even sometimes you don't even have basic equipment to make a diagnosis. So you have to really focus on talking to the patient. And that's the only thing that you often have, and you have to learn how to practice medicine with that, which is the only thing that you have. And I think when it comes to the change that I made from like, a very clinical-practice-based career into like an research and an environmental one is that one of the things that frustrated me that most while I was practicing medicine is that there were and there are still a lot of things that we do not have answers for in patients. When they come to get a diagnosis, they sometimes ask you were themselves like why something happened. And most of the time, we really have to say that we don't know why. I think there's even a medical term for this, which is that something it's adiabatic, which means that we have absolutely no idea what costed and I really hated it. I hated not being able to have answers for my patients. And I mean, I still don't have all the answers. But I think as I moved forward into an environmental health career, I realized that this field of environmental health had a lot of those answers. And that through my medical education, I barely heard of those. So I think that's what made me shift.Brian Bienkowski 08:18So we're going to talk more about your your research and that switch. And, you know, maybe some ideas you have for the medical field to bridge some of these gaps. But I have to ask, did your did family and friends question your decision? I mean, being a physician is a is a career that I think most of us know. I mean, we all know that career. It's familiar to us. It's a pillar in most communities. And I think researcher is a little more esoteric to a lot of folks. So I'm wondering if your family was like, What are you doing?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 08:48Oh, my gosh, yeah, I every single person that went through medical school with me or even my family, or even friends, or even now that I meet people, when I tell them that I went through medical school and that I became a physician. Now I do environmental health, every single person has questioned that. And I feel like sometimes, when like for the Mexican perspective, a lot of people questioned this because they don't really know much about the field, and how important it is. But I don't know like having all these people question your life decision makes it like just harder to move forward and harder to realize if you're in the right path. And I think that was really hard when I first made the decision to switch. But now looking back, I don't think I would do anything differently.Brian Bienkowski 09:38And to keep on this theme of challenges. I want to reflect a bit on your move to the US. You mentioned how important Mexico City and family and gathering was to your, to your upbringing and identity. And I don't know that most folks understand the toll of immigrating even under positive circumstances like yourself. So can you talk about this experience and what people should know about the personal channel changes and sacrifices for immigrants?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 10:02Yeah, honestly, thanks for asking this questions. I think that sometimes the challenges for like immigrating in good, some good circumstances, like I did is invisible to others. But from my experience, I really want to say that immigrating in good circumstances to the US is extremely challenging. There are so many rules and steps that you need to take that often really don't even make sense and can really make your life harder. But I do have to say that I'm really fortunate to be here. And I'm really grateful to the US for the all the all the opportunities that I've had. But moving away from family is so hard. Like you move to a country where you don't have this support system, the culture is extremely different. And you need to talk and communicate using a different language. I don't know if you've watched Modern Family. I really like that show. But there's this episode.Brian Bienkowski 10:54Modern Family? Yeah, gosh, yes. I'm a yes. I'm rewatching it right now. Yes.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 10:59I love it. I love it. But there's this episode, where Sofia Vergara says, "do you know how smart I am in Spanish?" And it's so funny. But it's so relatable. Like, there's so many things that I want to say, but I just cannot find the words.Brian Bienkowski 11:13Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And I want to talk now about the work that you're doing as you've made the switch to research. So you're examining environmental exposures, and birth defects in Mexico. That's one of the things you're working on. So I wanted to talk about talk, you know, if you can explore this link between these exposures and birth defects, why it's concerning, and who is most impacted?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 11:34Of course, yeah. So through my dissertation, I'm on the final stages of my doctoral program, hopefully graduating this August. But through my dissertation, I've been studying birth defects and their relationship that they have with the polluting industry in the country, in Mexico. It has been challenging to do something like this with public databases that the Mexican government has, but I found really interesting things. For example, I've seen that the reporting for genital birth defects in Mexico in the last couple of years has been steadily increasing. I mean, this could be due to so many things –like people know now how to recognize them better or many other things. But when you compare that to other countries, this seems to be happening, too. And it's making us think about the impact endocrine disrupting chemicals are having in communities around industrial areas. I think it is very concerning to see the impact that pollution has in your health even before you were born. Like I don't think people realize that we used to think in a medical field that that placenta was like this major barrier where nothing could go through it. But we've realized that that's not the case. And I really think that we don't have strict enough regulations for most chemicals. But overall, like if you asked me like, What was the most concerning thing that you saw is the lack of data that Mexico has for both health effects and polluting chemicals. I'm always amazed that countries like the US, for example, like researchers in the US say that they are so far behind, but they don't really realize if they're far behind where developing countries are.Brian Bienkowski 13:11You mentioned a term their endocrine disrupting chemicals, which I think a lot of Environmental Health News readership is aware of. But for our listening audience, can you explain what those chemicals are? And kind of the plausible ways that they could possibly be behind some of these birth defects?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 13:26Of course, yeah, sorry, I forgot to explain that! But yeah, endocrine disrupting chemicals are generally what we say are chemicals that are capable of interfering with the way your hormones work. And your hormones are very important since the beginning of life, because hormones are also chemicals, but they mediate a lot of processes in your body. So if there's a chemical there's interrupting those pathways, then you can see problems with your development or the endocrine system diseases, for example, reproductive issues, or diabetes, or thyroid problems. So mostly, those are the things that we're concerned when we get exposed to endocrine disrupting chemicals, which are almost in everything. But one of the major things that we know, gets us exposed to endocrine disrupting chemicals, are plastics.Brian Bienkowski 14:21Soyou mentioned gaps in the research. And you noticed this pretty early on that there were some gaps in environmental health and environmental justice data in Mexico. And I know you're just one researcher, but can you talk about this dearth of research and how you're trying to tackle this?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 14:35So I feel like environmental justice has been overlooked for centuries in both the community scale and the global scale. I really don't think high income countries realize how all their decisions impact developing countries. For example, I remember a few years ago, there was this Super Bowl held in Arizona or one of the border, one of the border states, but I think it was Arizona. And they said that they weren't going to have have a zero-waste Super Bowl because all the plastic generated was going to be recycled. But that plastic was shipped to Mexico, to northern Mexico, where plastic recycling plans are polluting the water and air of Mexican communities. So is one of the of the issues that we see in the global health realm. Like, this is not something that only happens in Mexico, but it happens everywhere. But with things like in the country level, when I first started the process to find something I wanted to do for my dissertation, I remember talking to my chair, about wanting to do something on environmental justice. So I started doing research on what was out there. And unfortunately, I wasn't able to find much. And I think this is related to what I was talking about, that we don't have a lot of data. And there's also something going on in Mexico and you know, other Latin American countries like Colombia, where it's very dangerous to be in environmentalist in those countries. Mexico is one of the deadliest country to be an environmentalist. So advocating for these things can get really challenging.Brian Bienkowski 16:03So can you talk about your efforts, in particular to advance environmental health policy in Mexico, including on lead and criminal behavior? And can you talk a little bit about your involvement with Mundo Químico, boy, I'm probably butchering these words. I'm really smart English, I swear. And what have you learned? And have you had any victories along the way in your in your efforts to advance environmental health policy down there?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 16:28Yeah, so let me talk a little bit about what Mundo Químico is, which translates to chemical world because we live in a chemical world. So this Mundo Químico is like a collaborative of scientists and other professionals in Mexico that got together and are really trying to push programs and policies related to environmental health in the country. Honestly, I feel like I'm very lucky to be part of it. I am the youngest member. And I ended up being there because as I was finishing up my master's program, I always felt like I owed something to my country, and I needed to do something in Mexico. So I did some research and who was working on environmental health in the country. And I found this very big and famous scientist, his name is Dr. Carlos Santos Burdoa. He's US-based. He was at the George Washington University, when I first heard of that of him. So I email him. Honestly, I didn't expect a reply, because like, senior scientists are really busy. But I did get a reply. And I was really surprised. But he told me that he was building this collaborative called Mundo Químico, and he asked me if I wanted to join him. So of course, I said, Yes. So what we've been trying to do, as I was saying, is to push environmental health agenda into the policies and to do some programs to reduce environmental health exposures. And we started with lead exposure, because Mexico has a really big problem with lead. I think we've done different things that I don't think I have enough time to talk about during our podcast. But what I have learned, and I think I have learned a lot of things, but one of the most important ones, is that it is so hard to communicate to the public and with policymakers. And I really did not expect that when I started my career in environmental health. And I think that's how I ended up studying lead exposure and criminal behavior. Because often when you want policymakers to listen to what you have to say, you have to talk to them in their terms, and talk to them in topics that that you feel that they will prioritize. So we know crime is a big thing in Mexico. So what we did is where we viewed all the available evidence to see how lead exposure was related to criminal behavior, we found that there's a link. But we still need research on this. And we need research to understand what the relationship means in the Mexican context. But yeah, I feel like that's how it started because we need to learn to communicate with policymakers. And I really don't want to stop talking about this question without mentioning some of the wins that we had, because I feel like in environmental health, we will always hear a lot about our fatals and not our wins. So we have had some wins, we have been able to produce some programs on lead exposure. And one of them is we were able to partner with WONART, which is an Arts Fund that the government of Mexico has and through their through them, we've been able to push this program to train pottery workers to produce lathe, Clay ceramics, which are a major traditional thing in Mexico and they usually have led in it. But we're pushing this program to produce lead-free clay ceramics and to certify that they're lead free. And even though we still have a lot of work to do on that issue, the start of the program to me is just a great win.Brian Bienkowski 19:54You mentioned two things there that I have a follow up on and you started to get to it a little bit at the end is is you meantioned that lead exposure is a big issue in Mexico. And I'm wondering if you can just kind of give a brief overview of the ceramics and potentially other sources of lead in the environment there. And then second, if you can kind of walk us through why there's this possible link to crime, what does lead do to people that could make them more susceptible to committing crime?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 20:20Of course, yeah. So I'll start with at glaced clay ceramics. So in Mexico, we use traditional pottery for cooking, storing, or even serving food. And one of this traditional pottery is called glaced clay ceramics and the glaze that the ceramics have, it has lead in it. And because it's not produced in ovens, that can reach high enough temperatures, in like close ovens, because it's a very artisanal process, the lead stays there, and it leeches into food. And he usually leeches when you like cook, or store food that's very acidic. And Mexican cuisine is really acidic. So it leaves us a lot of lead. And we have a major problem of lead exposure. Because of that, that's actually the main source of lead exposure in the country, because most of the people in Mexico use it. Like if you go down there, you'll see it in restaurants, you'll see your honestly see it everywhere. And the latest numbers show that children from one to four ages in Mexico, 17% of all children from one to four years of age in Mexico have lead poisoning. So it's a really public health issue, we don't have data to see if older kids have lead, we don't have data on adults. But it's a really big concern, because lead is very toxic, like the WHO says that there is no safe level of exposure to lead because of how toxic it is. And he causes a variety of things. It can increase cardiovascular disease, it can damage the kidneys. But one of the ones, one of the things that we have studied the most is how it damages the nervous system and the brain. And this goes back to the question that you asked about criminal behavior. So we've seen that lead damages the prefrontal cortex of the brain, which is in charge of, of behavior, and, yeah, to put it in, like, easier terms, yeah, it's in charge of behavior and how you react to things. So when it damages the neurons there, it can cause antisocial behavior, and it can cause aggressiveness, and it can cause violent behaviors. So that's how we've seen it has associated with criminal behavior. So in addition to that communication work directly with policymakers and residents, I know you're also active on social media. And I'm wondering how you've leveraged those platforms to try to get the word out on some of these environmental ills. Oh, my gosh, being on social media is so hard. I don't know if you've tried it. But seriously, it takes a lot of effort to create content on social media. But yeah, so I ended up in social media, because going back to this environmental justice issues, Spanish speaking countries, and communities really don't have as much information as English speakers do. And that's something I really noticed while I was scrolling down on every social media platform, so I saw hundreds of videos on how to reduce environmental exposures, but almost none, were in Spanish. So I decided to venture into social media. And honestly, I don't have that many followers, my platform is growing. But one of the things that I've noticed is that many health professionals are starting to follow me because they're interested. And they want to learn more, because some of their patients are asking about these topics. So I feel like it's a great way to do outreach and communication, things when you're in the environmental health field.Brian Bienkowski 24:06I have not tried it. Of course, I had I had social media accounts. It's been more than a decade. I think since I've had one, I don't even have LinkedIn anymore. I am really happy that people like you are on them, because I think it is a counterbalance to the reason that I got off, which is a lot of kind of miss information and hatred. But it is really heartening for me to see folks like yourself and scientists in general and health professionals are able to take their message directly to people as opposed to kind of being mediated through, you know, newspapers or whatever happened back in the day. So I think that's a good thing. And we have noticed though, as a newsroom, a lack of Spanish language environmental content and information and we are trying to trying to combat that with some eh en español coverage. So We have noticed the same thing as you. And there is a real language justice issue in the United States when it comes to environmental information. So I hope people will follow you. We will add a link in this podcast article so people can follow you if you want. Having spent some time now in the environmental health research field, and we were talking earlier about how you started as a physician, how do you think the medical field could better incorporate environmental health information for patients and prepare those physicians?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 25:28I mean, I honestly wish health care workers have better training in environmental health. From my experience, which is going through medical school in Mexico, I really can't speak for other countries. I barely heard about environmental exposures as causes of disease, when I was in medical school, maybe I heard about asbestos or silicosis or occupational exposures, but non an environmental exposures like a social determinants of health, which they are. So I'm currently working actually on a project with some peers on how there is a huge gap in medical and other other healthcare professions school curriculum when it comes to environmental health in Latin America. And it is a sad reality that we barely see courses on environmental health in these curriculums. But I can tell you that I like I can see myself advocating about this for a really long time. And I think we need to get to a point where every single doctor, every single dentist, every single nutritionist, every single nurse knows that this exists, and that we need to know about it and talk to our patients about it.Brian Bienkowski 26:41This is purely anecdotal. But I do feel like I'm seeing more on the climate side of things where physicians are being more active and perhaps more trained in climate change and extreme heat, but less so on –surprisingly– less so on things like chemical exposure, and the things that you've been talking about endocrine disrupting chemicals. So hopefully, hopefully, that changes because I think that would be a real public health win. So, Maria, this has been so much fun hearing about you and your work. And I have to ask you, before we get to some of the fun questions, I have a couple more questions. And one is do you plan on going back to Mexico? Would you want to work there? Or do you think you'll stay in the United States? What do you want to do with this environmental health research training?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 27:25Oh, my gosh, you're putting me on the spot.Brian Bienkowski 27:28I mean, you can have a no comment.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 27:30I know my family's gonna want me to give an answer that maybe it's not the one that they like. But I do feel that the work that I'm doing for Mexico in the United States, is far like, I feel like I have way more opportunities to do something for my country from the United States, than the ones that I see that are my country. And it's a really sad reality, because I would give the world to just go back to my family and my nephews. But if I really want to see a change, I really feel like I have to stay in the United States for at least a couple of years. To improve, like my research techniques to get a better sense of what's out there and what I can do for Mexico. I mean, in the future. I don't know how long from from now, I do see myself going back to Mexico at some point. But right now, I don't think it is an option. And it is a sad reality, not only for me, but for other immigrants that are doing science in the United States, because our countries lack opportunities.Brian Bienkowski 28:39And Maria, before we get to the fun stuff, what are you optimistic about?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 28:44Oh, that's a really important question! I feel like we don't hear about optimism sometimes in the environmental field, like there are so it's filled with bad news sometimes. But I feel like I'm optimistic about hearing more people are learning about environmental exposure. So how they can affect their health, because honestly, sometimes social movements can move policies faster. So we really need that. I'm optimistic about how younger generations are thinking more about the environment now. And they're joining this fight. There are so many things I'm optimistic about. And I'm glad you brought this up. Because again, I don't think that this field is full of good news. So we need to, to have these victories and these things that we're optimistic about really present in our day to day because he can get overwhelming at times.Brian Bienkowski 29:37I think the hard thing in my profession and maybe this is true in science in science communication as well, is whenever we try to talk about good news, it often feels like we're perhaps greenwashing or perhaps we're overlooking, you know, renewable energy is a great example. You know, solar energy and wind energy are less polluting, however now we have to go get those chemicals to make those panels in the ground and community. You know, so there's always there's other problems and we don't want to overlook those. But I totally agree with you that we need to be better as a, as a country in general about celebrating environmental wins, so people just don't get so down about it.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 30:17Yeah, cuz I mean, when I talk to people about toxic exposures, I usually get the same reaction, like, everything's toxic, I'm gonna die from something. So I might as well just stop thinking about this. And I don't think that's a great approach. So, I mean, that should go back to our communication efforts, like, what are we saying, what are we doing? And how can we make this better? So our message gets out there, and it's not as overwhelming as it is currently.Brian Bienkowski 30:43100% totally agree with you. Well, Maria, thank you so much for your time. I'm just so I'm so happy to have met you and have you in this program. I'm just really excited about the work you're doing. So before I get you out of here, I have a few rapid fire questions where you can just answer with a one word or a phrase, if I have a whole day off, I am likely.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 31:05Oh my gosh, I'm probably hitting the craft store to find a new craft to doBrian Bienkowski 31:09What what type of crafting do you like do?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 31:12anything, like anything like it, maybe it's knitting, maybe it's stitching, maybe it's painting, whatever, like, whatever is new, I'm doing it.Brian Bienkowski 31:22So my wife and I, we live in the Upper Peninsula. And so we have very long winters. And I find myself this time of year. And I hesitate to even say this pining for winter, because it is such a great time to be quiet. And I play I'm playing music and my wife does be beadwork and stuff like that. Or we do some paintings together. And it's all crafty, and it's cozy and quiet. And then in the summer, I find that I really miss those. I really missed those times. So I need to find a way to do more crafty things, when it's nice outside. Yeah,Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 31:54I can relate to that. 100% I feel like it's a great therapy to do craftBrian Bienkowski 31:58100%. Well, I just had a guest on who was the guest, I'm forgetting now. But I had a guest on we were talking crafts not too long ago, I'll have to dig that out. Because I think it's for folks like yourself who are really busy doing this kind of work. It's good to have that other side of your creative brain get used every now and then. So the best gift I've ever received isMaria Jose Talayero Schettino 32:22I'm gonna see my family.Brian Bienkowski 32:24And if I could immediately gain one talent or ability it would beMaria Jose Talayero Schettino 32:31I know, to be able to get grants for research without being rejected.Brian Bienkowski 32:37Not flight or invisibility, just just grants! this one good for research. keeping it simple. I like that. And you do not have to. You can talk more than one word or a phrase here. What is the last book you read for fun?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 32:53Oh, this is a good one. So lately because I've been working on my dissertation. I feel like I've been reading a lot of science stuff. But I feel like the last book that I read it was, I feel it was last year. And it's a book by a Mexican Indigenous woman, well, Ilfrosina Cruz who is now a representative in the Mexican government. And it's a great book. I'm not gonna spoil it for everyone. But she talks about her life as an Indigenous girl and how she wanted something different. And she wanted to create opportunities. And she moved on to be a representative and changing the laws in Mexico. So it's a really inspiring book, and I highly recommend it, it is called "Los Sueños de la niña de la montaña," which translates to "The Dreams from the girl up the mountain. I don't know if it's available in English yet, but I know it's in Spanish and I really highly recommended.Brian Bienkowski 33:46Excellent. Well, Maria, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for being part of this program, and we'll have you back soon.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 33:51Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It was a great talk.Brian Bienkowski 33:59That's all for this week. folks. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Maria. If you enjoyed this podcast, visit agentsofchangeinej.org. And while you're there, click the donate button to support us or sign up for our free monthly newsletter. You can also find us on X, Instagram and follow us on Spotify or iTunes and never miss an episode give us a rating. This agency chain podcast was recorded written produced and edited by me with outreaching scheduling and support from the rest of the team Dr. Ami Zota Dr. Yoshiro Cornelis Van Horn Dr. Veena singlet, Dr. Max on Dr. Laura Edwards, summer Ahmad and Maria Paula Rubiano. Our music is now sung by Paddington Bear. Thanks for joining us. We hope to keep these important conversations on diversity in science and health. Go. Have a great week folks.

Dr. Maria Jose Talayero Schettino joins the Agents of Change in Environmental Justice podcast to discuss why she switched careers from physician to environmental health researcher, and how she’s using this new training to advocate for environmental justice in Mexico. Talayero Schettino, a current Agents of Change fellow and a DrPH candidate in the Department of Environmental and Occupational Health at The George Washington University, also talks about the challenges of immigrating to the U.S. and how the medical field can better prepare doctors to understand the effects of environmental pollutants on our health.The Agents of Change in Environmental Justice podcast is a biweekly podcast featuring the stories and big ideas from past and present fellows, as well as others in the field. You can see all of the past episodes here.Listen below to our discussion with Talayero Schettino and subscribe to the podcast at iTunes or Spotify.Agents of Change in Environmental Justice · Maria Jose Talayero Schettino on using her research to advocate for environmental justice In MexicoTranscriptMaria Jose Talayero Schettino 00:00I don't I really don't think high income countries realize how all their decisions impact developing countries.Brian Bienkowski 00:11Hello and welcome back to the Agents of Change in Environmental Justice podcast, a partnership between Environmental Health News and Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health. I'm your host Brian Bienkowski, editor of Agents of Change, and senior editor at Environmental Health News. Folks, we are so grateful for your support. We've been at this a few years now and we would love to continue to grow. Please share this podcast with your family and friends, colleagues, and subscribe to us on Spotify or iTunes and please leave us a review. Today's guest is Dr. Maria Jose Talayero Schettino, a current fellow and a doctorate pH candidate in the Department of Environmental and Occupational Health at the George Washington University. Maria talks about switching careers from a physician to an environmental health researcher, using her research to advocate for environmental justice in her native Mexico and how the medical field can better prepare doctors to understand the effects of environmental pollutants on our health. Enjoy. All right, I am now joined by Dr. Maria,Jose Talayero Schettino. Maria, how are you doing today?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 01:14I'm doing great. Thanks for having me here. Brian, how are you?Brian Bienkowski 01:18I am doing wonderful. And I'm really excited to hear about all the work that you're doing. But I want to start at the very beginning. Tell me about growing up in Mexico City.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 01:29Oh, yeah, I honestly have very good memories about growing up in Mexico City. But I'm not sure how familiar you are with Mexican culture or if you've ever traveled there, butBrian Bienkowski 01:41almost zeroMaria Jose Talayero Schettino 01:42Mexicans really highly, highly value things like hospitality, generosity, respect for elders, solidarity. And it might sound really funny, but we highly value social connections and gatherings. I mean, it's weird to say that we really value parties, but we do. And that's why our food and culture is so important. So I feel like growing up in Mexico City was just like that: full of culture, tradition, family gatherings. And I feel like I'm very lucky to be able to call myself Mexican.Brian Bienkowski 02:12Is there a certain food or or holiday or gathering? Are there certain ones that kind of stick out in your mind as being particularly poignant?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 02:22I mean, yes, I think so. Particularly, Independence Day. I have very good memories about going to watch the fireworks. Independence Days in September. Most people in America think it's Cinco de Mayo. But that's not it. It's in September. But other holidays that really stick up for me are the other mortos which is in November, and also Posadas, which are held during like, December. So Christmas is very important to us too.Brian Bienkowski 02:54And the only thing I really know about Mexico City, and pardon my American ignorance, is it's it's a massive city, right? I mean, were you in kind of a dense urban area?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 03:04I mean, yeah, it's a huge, huge city. And I feel like there's a lot of people living around Mexico City, I did feel like I lived with my family in one of like, more suburban area, not closer to like, the historical center or anything. But we travel a lot by car. I mean, we have a huge air pollution problem because of that. But I feel like yeah, it's a huge city, and everyone's all around it in. I mean, it's very, very well connected when it comes to streets, we have a lot of traffic, but that's how people go around Mexico City by staying in traffic for really long periods of time.Brian Bienkowski 03:48So how and when did you become interested in health and the environment?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 03:53I mean, this is a great question. And every time I get it, I wish I had that story, "like when I was younger, I used to tell my parents that I wanted to be a doctor since I was a little girl." Unfortunately, that was not me. I wanted to be a singer. I wanted to be an artist. I wanted to be a painter. So that was not me. So I think I ended up in like healthcare and the environment because I really loved science. And don't get me wrong, I really hated physics and math. So because they hated it, I feel like that drew me into chemistry and biology. And I I think I ended up in medical school because of that, because my love for science and honestly, I never knew I was gonna end up doing research and doing a lot of statistics. Even after I ran away from math.Brian Bienkowski 04:42The only class I ever got to see in growing up was chemistry that that that for some reason that subject gave me such fits. And I don't know if it was my teacher, or what but it really bothered me.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 04:54I mean, yeah, it's a really, really hard, hard subject! and I I feel you I feel like I just don't know, I don't know what it was. But chemistry and biology always caught my eye.Brian Bienkowski 05:05eye. And the weird thing is now I, you know, I've spent most of my career writing about chemicals in the environment. So it's, it's strange, I hope I'm not just writing a bunch of incorrect things.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 05:17I guess I guess you've made peace with it. And now you love it.Brian Bienkowski 05:21That's right. So before we get into your your career has been fascinating because you, you started off in healthcare as a physician, and I want to talk about your journey. But first, what is a moment or event that has helped shape your identity?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 05:35Wow, that's a really hard question. I think there are a couple of things that I want to mention that really shaped my identity as I was growing up. And I feel like the first one was really practicing medicine in public hospitals, that really showed me that life is not fair. And that made me want to work on that. And I think the other thing I want to mention that really shaped my identity is immigrating to the United States, even though I emigrated when I was, I think, 26 years old. Even though I'm like a short four-hour flight away from home, I think immigrating made me realize about all the things that I took for granted, and now I really highly value.Brian Bienkowski 06:16Luckily, we're going to talk about both of those things. Because I think that's, it's a really important part of your journey. And starting with this idea of you became a physician in practice in rural communities around Mexico City. So can you tell me about this work, what you learned from this time with patients and why ultimately, you decided to switch careers?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 06:34Of course. So I guess, practicing medicine in rural communities, and even public hospitals, or public health care centers in Mexico, it really does feel like an art. Because you need to learn how to treat disease differently. Sometimes the medicines that you learn on a book that were the best for a specific disease are not available. So you have to work around it. And the same comes for like diagnostic diagnostic tools, you don't have fancy equipment, or even sometimes you don't even have basic equipment to make a diagnosis. So you have to really focus on talking to the patient. And that's the only thing that you often have, and you have to learn how to practice medicine with that, which is the only thing that you have. And I think when it comes to the change that I made from like, a very clinical-practice-based career into like an research and an environmental one is that one of the things that frustrated me that most while I was practicing medicine is that there were and there are still a lot of things that we do not have answers for in patients. When they come to get a diagnosis, they sometimes ask you were themselves like why something happened. And most of the time, we really have to say that we don't know why. I think there's even a medical term for this, which is that something it's adiabatic, which means that we have absolutely no idea what costed and I really hated it. I hated not being able to have answers for my patients. And I mean, I still don't have all the answers. But I think as I moved forward into an environmental health career, I realized that this field of environmental health had a lot of those answers. And that through my medical education, I barely heard of those. So I think that's what made me shift.Brian Bienkowski 08:18So we're going to talk more about your your research and that switch. And, you know, maybe some ideas you have for the medical field to bridge some of these gaps. But I have to ask, did your did family and friends question your decision? I mean, being a physician is a is a career that I think most of us know. I mean, we all know that career. It's familiar to us. It's a pillar in most communities. And I think researcher is a little more esoteric to a lot of folks. So I'm wondering if your family was like, What are you doing?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 08:48Oh, my gosh, yeah, I every single person that went through medical school with me or even my family, or even friends, or even now that I meet people, when I tell them that I went through medical school and that I became a physician. Now I do environmental health, every single person has questioned that. And I feel like sometimes, when like for the Mexican perspective, a lot of people questioned this because they don't really know much about the field, and how important it is. But I don't know like having all these people question your life decision makes it like just harder to move forward and harder to realize if you're in the right path. And I think that was really hard when I first made the decision to switch. But now looking back, I don't think I would do anything differently.Brian Bienkowski 09:38And to keep on this theme of challenges. I want to reflect a bit on your move to the US. You mentioned how important Mexico City and family and gathering was to your, to your upbringing and identity. And I don't know that most folks understand the toll of immigrating even under positive circumstances like yourself. So can you talk about this experience and what people should know about the personal channel changes and sacrifices for immigrants?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 10:02Yeah, honestly, thanks for asking this questions. I think that sometimes the challenges for like immigrating in good, some good circumstances, like I did is invisible to others. But from my experience, I really want to say that immigrating in good circumstances to the US is extremely challenging. There are so many rules and steps that you need to take that often really don't even make sense and can really make your life harder. But I do have to say that I'm really fortunate to be here. And I'm really grateful to the US for the all the all the opportunities that I've had. But moving away from family is so hard. Like you move to a country where you don't have this support system, the culture is extremely different. And you need to talk and communicate using a different language. I don't know if you've watched Modern Family. I really like that show. But there's this episode.Brian Bienkowski 10:54Modern Family? Yeah, gosh, yes. I'm a yes. I'm rewatching it right now. Yes.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 10:59I love it. I love it. But there's this episode, where Sofia Vergara says, "do you know how smart I am in Spanish?" And it's so funny. But it's so relatable. Like, there's so many things that I want to say, but I just cannot find the words.Brian Bienkowski 11:13Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And I want to talk now about the work that you're doing as you've made the switch to research. So you're examining environmental exposures, and birth defects in Mexico. That's one of the things you're working on. So I wanted to talk about talk, you know, if you can explore this link between these exposures and birth defects, why it's concerning, and who is most impacted?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 11:34Of course, yeah. So through my dissertation, I'm on the final stages of my doctoral program, hopefully graduating this August. But through my dissertation, I've been studying birth defects and their relationship that they have with the polluting industry in the country, in Mexico. It has been challenging to do something like this with public databases that the Mexican government has, but I found really interesting things. For example, I've seen that the reporting for genital birth defects in Mexico in the last couple of years has been steadily increasing. I mean, this could be due to so many things –like people know now how to recognize them better or many other things. But when you compare that to other countries, this seems to be happening, too. And it's making us think about the impact endocrine disrupting chemicals are having in communities around industrial areas. I think it is very concerning to see the impact that pollution has in your health even before you were born. Like I don't think people realize that we used to think in a medical field that that placenta was like this major barrier where nothing could go through it. But we've realized that that's not the case. And I really think that we don't have strict enough regulations for most chemicals. But overall, like if you asked me like, What was the most concerning thing that you saw is the lack of data that Mexico has for both health effects and polluting chemicals. I'm always amazed that countries like the US, for example, like researchers in the US say that they are so far behind, but they don't really realize if they're far behind where developing countries are.Brian Bienkowski 13:11You mentioned a term their endocrine disrupting chemicals, which I think a lot of Environmental Health News readership is aware of. But for our listening audience, can you explain what those chemicals are? And kind of the plausible ways that they could possibly be behind some of these birth defects?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 13:26Of course, yeah, sorry, I forgot to explain that! But yeah, endocrine disrupting chemicals are generally what we say are chemicals that are capable of interfering with the way your hormones work. And your hormones are very important since the beginning of life, because hormones are also chemicals, but they mediate a lot of processes in your body. So if there's a chemical there's interrupting those pathways, then you can see problems with your development or the endocrine system diseases, for example, reproductive issues, or diabetes, or thyroid problems. So mostly, those are the things that we're concerned when we get exposed to endocrine disrupting chemicals, which are almost in everything. But one of the major things that we know, gets us exposed to endocrine disrupting chemicals, are plastics.Brian Bienkowski 14:21Soyou mentioned gaps in the research. And you noticed this pretty early on that there were some gaps in environmental health and environmental justice data in Mexico. And I know you're just one researcher, but can you talk about this dearth of research and how you're trying to tackle this?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 14:35So I feel like environmental justice has been overlooked for centuries in both the community scale and the global scale. I really don't think high income countries realize how all their decisions impact developing countries. For example, I remember a few years ago, there was this Super Bowl held in Arizona or one of the border, one of the border states, but I think it was Arizona. And they said that they weren't going to have have a zero-waste Super Bowl because all the plastic generated was going to be recycled. But that plastic was shipped to Mexico, to northern Mexico, where plastic recycling plans are polluting the water and air of Mexican communities. So is one of the of the issues that we see in the global health realm. Like, this is not something that only happens in Mexico, but it happens everywhere. But with things like in the country level, when I first started the process to find something I wanted to do for my dissertation, I remember talking to my chair, about wanting to do something on environmental justice. So I started doing research on what was out there. And unfortunately, I wasn't able to find much. And I think this is related to what I was talking about, that we don't have a lot of data. And there's also something going on in Mexico and you know, other Latin American countries like Colombia, where it's very dangerous to be in environmentalist in those countries. Mexico is one of the deadliest country to be an environmentalist. So advocating for these things can get really challenging.Brian Bienkowski 16:03So can you talk about your efforts, in particular to advance environmental health policy in Mexico, including on lead and criminal behavior? And can you talk a little bit about your involvement with Mundo Químico, boy, I'm probably butchering these words. I'm really smart English, I swear. And what have you learned? And have you had any victories along the way in your in your efforts to advance environmental health policy down there?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 16:28Yeah, so let me talk a little bit about what Mundo Químico is, which translates to chemical world because we live in a chemical world. So this Mundo Químico is like a collaborative of scientists and other professionals in Mexico that got together and are really trying to push programs and policies related to environmental health in the country. Honestly, I feel like I'm very lucky to be part of it. I am the youngest member. And I ended up being there because as I was finishing up my master's program, I always felt like I owed something to my country, and I needed to do something in Mexico. So I did some research and who was working on environmental health in the country. And I found this very big and famous scientist, his name is Dr. Carlos Santos Burdoa. He's US-based. He was at the George Washington University, when I first heard of that of him. So I email him. Honestly, I didn't expect a reply, because like, senior scientists are really busy. But I did get a reply. And I was really surprised. But he told me that he was building this collaborative called Mundo Químico, and he asked me if I wanted to join him. So of course, I said, Yes. So what we've been trying to do, as I was saying, is to push environmental health agenda into the policies and to do some programs to reduce environmental health exposures. And we started with lead exposure, because Mexico has a really big problem with lead. I think we've done different things that I don't think I have enough time to talk about during our podcast. But what I have learned, and I think I have learned a lot of things, but one of the most important ones, is that it is so hard to communicate to the public and with policymakers. And I really did not expect that when I started my career in environmental health. And I think that's how I ended up studying lead exposure and criminal behavior. Because often when you want policymakers to listen to what you have to say, you have to talk to them in their terms, and talk to them in topics that that you feel that they will prioritize. So we know crime is a big thing in Mexico. So what we did is where we viewed all the available evidence to see how lead exposure was related to criminal behavior, we found that there's a link. But we still need research on this. And we need research to understand what the relationship means in the Mexican context. But yeah, I feel like that's how it started because we need to learn to communicate with policymakers. And I really don't want to stop talking about this question without mentioning some of the wins that we had, because I feel like in environmental health, we will always hear a lot about our fatals and not our wins. So we have had some wins, we have been able to produce some programs on lead exposure. And one of them is we were able to partner with WONART, which is an Arts Fund that the government of Mexico has and through their through them, we've been able to push this program to train pottery workers to produce lathe, Clay ceramics, which are a major traditional thing in Mexico and they usually have led in it. But we're pushing this program to produce lead-free clay ceramics and to certify that they're lead free. And even though we still have a lot of work to do on that issue, the start of the program to me is just a great win.Brian Bienkowski 19:54You mentioned two things there that I have a follow up on and you started to get to it a little bit at the end is is you meantioned that lead exposure is a big issue in Mexico. And I'm wondering if you can just kind of give a brief overview of the ceramics and potentially other sources of lead in the environment there. And then second, if you can kind of walk us through why there's this possible link to crime, what does lead do to people that could make them more susceptible to committing crime?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 20:20Of course, yeah. So I'll start with at glaced clay ceramics. So in Mexico, we use traditional pottery for cooking, storing, or even serving food. And one of this traditional pottery is called glaced clay ceramics and the glaze that the ceramics have, it has lead in it. And because it's not produced in ovens, that can reach high enough temperatures, in like close ovens, because it's a very artisanal process, the lead stays there, and it leeches into food. And he usually leeches when you like cook, or store food that's very acidic. And Mexican cuisine is really acidic. So it leaves us a lot of lead. And we have a major problem of lead exposure. Because of that, that's actually the main source of lead exposure in the country, because most of the people in Mexico use it. Like if you go down there, you'll see it in restaurants, you'll see your honestly see it everywhere. And the latest numbers show that children from one to four ages in Mexico, 17% of all children from one to four years of age in Mexico have lead poisoning. So it's a really public health issue, we don't have data to see if older kids have lead, we don't have data on adults. But it's a really big concern, because lead is very toxic, like the WHO says that there is no safe level of exposure to lead because of how toxic it is. And he causes a variety of things. It can increase cardiovascular disease, it can damage the kidneys. But one of the ones, one of the things that we have studied the most is how it damages the nervous system and the brain. And this goes back to the question that you asked about criminal behavior. So we've seen that lead damages the prefrontal cortex of the brain, which is in charge of, of behavior, and, yeah, to put it in, like, easier terms, yeah, it's in charge of behavior and how you react to things. So when it damages the neurons there, it can cause antisocial behavior, and it can cause aggressiveness, and it can cause violent behaviors. So that's how we've seen it has associated with criminal behavior. So in addition to that communication work directly with policymakers and residents, I know you're also active on social media. And I'm wondering how you've leveraged those platforms to try to get the word out on some of these environmental ills. Oh, my gosh, being on social media is so hard. I don't know if you've tried it. But seriously, it takes a lot of effort to create content on social media. But yeah, so I ended up in social media, because going back to this environmental justice issues, Spanish speaking countries, and communities really don't have as much information as English speakers do. And that's something I really noticed while I was scrolling down on every social media platform, so I saw hundreds of videos on how to reduce environmental exposures, but almost none, were in Spanish. So I decided to venture into social media. And honestly, I don't have that many followers, my platform is growing. But one of the things that I've noticed is that many health professionals are starting to follow me because they're interested. And they want to learn more, because some of their patients are asking about these topics. So I feel like it's a great way to do outreach and communication, things when you're in the environmental health field.Brian Bienkowski 24:06I have not tried it. Of course, I had I had social media accounts. It's been more than a decade. I think since I've had one, I don't even have LinkedIn anymore. I am really happy that people like you are on them, because I think it is a counterbalance to the reason that I got off, which is a lot of kind of miss information and hatred. But it is really heartening for me to see folks like yourself and scientists in general and health professionals are able to take their message directly to people as opposed to kind of being mediated through, you know, newspapers or whatever happened back in the day. So I think that's a good thing. And we have noticed though, as a newsroom, a lack of Spanish language environmental content and information and we are trying to trying to combat that with some eh en español coverage. So We have noticed the same thing as you. And there is a real language justice issue in the United States when it comes to environmental information. So I hope people will follow you. We will add a link in this podcast article so people can follow you if you want. Having spent some time now in the environmental health research field, and we were talking earlier about how you started as a physician, how do you think the medical field could better incorporate environmental health information for patients and prepare those physicians?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 25:28I mean, I honestly wish health care workers have better training in environmental health. From my experience, which is going through medical school in Mexico, I really can't speak for other countries. I barely heard about environmental exposures as causes of disease, when I was in medical school, maybe I heard about asbestos or silicosis or occupational exposures, but non an environmental exposures like a social determinants of health, which they are. So I'm currently working actually on a project with some peers on how there is a huge gap in medical and other other healthcare professions school curriculum when it comes to environmental health in Latin America. And it is a sad reality that we barely see courses on environmental health in these curriculums. But I can tell you that I like I can see myself advocating about this for a really long time. And I think we need to get to a point where every single doctor, every single dentist, every single nutritionist, every single nurse knows that this exists, and that we need to know about it and talk to our patients about it.Brian Bienkowski 26:41This is purely anecdotal. But I do feel like I'm seeing more on the climate side of things where physicians are being more active and perhaps more trained in climate change and extreme heat, but less so on –surprisingly– less so on things like chemical exposure, and the things that you've been talking about endocrine disrupting chemicals. So hopefully, hopefully, that changes because I think that would be a real public health win. So, Maria, this has been so much fun hearing about you and your work. And I have to ask you, before we get to some of the fun questions, I have a couple more questions. And one is do you plan on going back to Mexico? Would you want to work there? Or do you think you'll stay in the United States? What do you want to do with this environmental health research training?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 27:25Oh, my gosh, you're putting me on the spot.Brian Bienkowski 27:28I mean, you can have a no comment.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 27:30I know my family's gonna want me to give an answer that maybe it's not the one that they like. But I do feel that the work that I'm doing for Mexico in the United States, is far like, I feel like I have way more opportunities to do something for my country from the United States, than the ones that I see that are my country. And it's a really sad reality, because I would give the world to just go back to my family and my nephews. But if I really want to see a change, I really feel like I have to stay in the United States for at least a couple of years. To improve, like my research techniques to get a better sense of what's out there and what I can do for Mexico. I mean, in the future. I don't know how long from from now, I do see myself going back to Mexico at some point. But right now, I don't think it is an option. And it is a sad reality, not only for me, but for other immigrants that are doing science in the United States, because our countries lack opportunities.Brian Bienkowski 28:39And Maria, before we get to the fun stuff, what are you optimistic about?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 28:44Oh, that's a really important question! I feel like we don't hear about optimism sometimes in the environmental field, like there are so it's filled with bad news sometimes. But I feel like I'm optimistic about hearing more people are learning about environmental exposure. So how they can affect their health, because honestly, sometimes social movements can move policies faster. So we really need that. I'm optimistic about how younger generations are thinking more about the environment now. And they're joining this fight. There are so many things I'm optimistic about. And I'm glad you brought this up. Because again, I don't think that this field is full of good news. So we need to, to have these victories and these things that we're optimistic about really present in our day to day because he can get overwhelming at times.Brian Bienkowski 29:37I think the hard thing in my profession and maybe this is true in science in science communication as well, is whenever we try to talk about good news, it often feels like we're perhaps greenwashing or perhaps we're overlooking, you know, renewable energy is a great example. You know, solar energy and wind energy are less polluting, however now we have to go get those chemicals to make those panels in the ground and community. You know, so there's always there's other problems and we don't want to overlook those. But I totally agree with you that we need to be better as a, as a country in general about celebrating environmental wins, so people just don't get so down about it.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 30:17Yeah, cuz I mean, when I talk to people about toxic exposures, I usually get the same reaction, like, everything's toxic, I'm gonna die from something. So I might as well just stop thinking about this. And I don't think that's a great approach. So, I mean, that should go back to our communication efforts, like, what are we saying, what are we doing? And how can we make this better? So our message gets out there, and it's not as overwhelming as it is currently.Brian Bienkowski 30:43100% totally agree with you. Well, Maria, thank you so much for your time. I'm just so I'm so happy to have met you and have you in this program. I'm just really excited about the work you're doing. So before I get you out of here, I have a few rapid fire questions where you can just answer with a one word or a phrase, if I have a whole day off, I am likely.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 31:05Oh my gosh, I'm probably hitting the craft store to find a new craft to doBrian Bienkowski 31:09What what type of crafting do you like do?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 31:12anything, like anything like it, maybe it's knitting, maybe it's stitching, maybe it's painting, whatever, like, whatever is new, I'm doing it.Brian Bienkowski 31:22So my wife and I, we live in the Upper Peninsula. And so we have very long winters. And I find myself this time of year. And I hesitate to even say this pining for winter, because it is such a great time to be quiet. And I play I'm playing music and my wife does be beadwork and stuff like that. Or we do some paintings together. And it's all crafty, and it's cozy and quiet. And then in the summer, I find that I really miss those. I really missed those times. So I need to find a way to do more crafty things, when it's nice outside. Yeah,Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 31:54I can relate to that. 100% I feel like it's a great therapy to do craftBrian Bienkowski 31:58100%. Well, I just had a guest on who was the guest, I'm forgetting now. But I had a guest on we were talking crafts not too long ago, I'll have to dig that out. Because I think it's for folks like yourself who are really busy doing this kind of work. It's good to have that other side of your creative brain get used every now and then. So the best gift I've ever received isMaria Jose Talayero Schettino 32:22I'm gonna see my family.Brian Bienkowski 32:24And if I could immediately gain one talent or ability it would beMaria Jose Talayero Schettino 32:31I know, to be able to get grants for research without being rejected.Brian Bienkowski 32:37Not flight or invisibility, just just grants! this one good for research. keeping it simple. I like that. And you do not have to. You can talk more than one word or a phrase here. What is the last book you read for fun?Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 32:53Oh, this is a good one. So lately because I've been working on my dissertation. I feel like I've been reading a lot of science stuff. But I feel like the last book that I read it was, I feel it was last year. And it's a book by a Mexican Indigenous woman, well, Ilfrosina Cruz who is now a representative in the Mexican government. And it's a great book. I'm not gonna spoil it for everyone. But she talks about her life as an Indigenous girl and how she wanted something different. And she wanted to create opportunities. And she moved on to be a representative and changing the laws in Mexico. So it's a really inspiring book, and I highly recommend it, it is called "Los Sueños de la niña de la montaña," which translates to "The Dreams from the girl up the mountain. I don't know if it's available in English yet, but I know it's in Spanish and I really highly recommended.Brian Bienkowski 33:46Excellent. Well, Maria, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for being part of this program, and we'll have you back soon.Maria Jose Talayero Schettino 33:51Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It was a great talk.Brian Bienkowski 33:59That's all for this week. folks. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Maria. If you enjoyed this podcast, visit agentsofchangeinej.org. And while you're there, click the donate button to support us or sign up for our free monthly newsletter. You can also find us on X, Instagram and follow us on Spotify or iTunes and never miss an episode give us a rating. This agency chain podcast was recorded written produced and edited by me with outreaching scheduling and support from the rest of the team Dr. Ami Zota Dr. Yoshiro Cornelis Van Horn Dr. Veena singlet, Dr. Max on Dr. Laura Edwards, summer Ahmad and Maria Paula Rubiano. Our music is now sung by Paddington Bear. Thanks for joining us. We hope to keep these important conversations on diversity in science and health. Go. Have a great week folks.